As I was toodling around in Lissa Pattillo’s post-birthday/station-identification post this morning, I found myself mulling (once I’d finished groaning about my own old age) over my many issues with boys’ love manga. I have a fairly long history in slash fanfiction, and while a lot of it is really not to my taste (I prefer thoughtful, characterization-rich stories that reveal something new about the characters, as opposed to gratuitous smut-fests or sugary wish-fulfillment romances, and I’ll admit that the last two of these make up at least 75% of all relationship-focused fanfiction), it is easy to find the stuff I do like, now that I know how. So when I started really getting into manga, I thought boys’ love was going to be a no-brainer for me. Delving into the genre, though, I’ve been disappointed again and again, to the point where I’ve pretty much given up on it. I’m hoping Lissa’s blog will help me discover some series I enjoy, but I’m not as optimistic as I’d like. After all, even Jason Thompson let me down here. But I’m hoping that, as with fanfiction, it might be easy for me to find what I’m looking for, once I know how.
My main problems with the boys’ love manga I’ve read have been as follows:
1. Romance. The romance seems rushed and *really* contrived. Boys who don’t even know each other at the beginning of the story are declaring everlasting love by the end of the first volume, and while this may, on the surface, reflect the nature of some young teen and pre-teen romance (remember in seventh grade, when couples would be formed almost entirely by way of messages relayed by each other’s friends? “I’m here to tell you that Stacy likes Matt and wants to be his girlfriend.” “Matt says ‘okay'”) the way these romances are presented, they feel like they’ve come straight from the mind of a 12-year-old watching from the sidelines. Just as the 12-year-old is too young and (necessarily) self-involved to really have any insight into the scene playing out before her, outside of how it affects her (admiration? envy?), these stories are told without looking any deeper than that. And maybe if that 12-year-old is the target audience for the story, that’s exactly as it should be. But as an adult reader, something that seems told from the perspective of a romantically inclined 12-year-old mind is not really sufficient to keep me engaged. Even the conflict in these stories seems idealized and rushed to resolution. In fanfiction, it’s true, the writer can get pretty quickly to the romance, or at least more quickly than otherwise, but this is only because it is assumed that the reader has already read/seen/whatever the original author’s work, so all that buildup of plot and characterization has been *done* already. It makes sense to me that yaoi, with its doujinshi roots, would have developed like this in the beginning. But when I’m reading an original story, this kind of shortcut just doesn’t work for me.
2. Plot. You know, when I think about it, this is really just an extension of my first item, but it’s big enough to warrant its own section here, I think. My husband once asked me, “Is Banana Fish yaoi?” and my immediate response was, “I wish.” And when I said that, it wasn’t because I wished that the romance in Banana Fish had been more explicit, because honestly, I didn’t need it to be. What I meant was that I wish I’d ever read a boys’ love manga as interesting and well-plotted as Banana Fish, and maybe what this means is that I don’t really want to read boys’ love manga at all. It’s possible that I just have to accept that the real audience for BL really does want to just get to the romance as quickly as possible, see the boys make out and work their way up to sex as quickly as possible, and is really not interested in having to read a real *story* in order to get there. Unfortunately for me, I am. I really want to read a story, and I wish very much that I could find some long, epic stories that just happen to contain queer romance as they go. Like, maybe if those three volumes of Rin! or Little Butterfly (both of which had positive write-ups in Manga: The Complete Guide) had actually been ten volumes, and the romance was developed over the course of a much greater plot, I would have actually liked them, because honestly I did find the characters interesting, what I got to see of them. I just felt cheated by the way the “plot” and the relationships were rushed along to serve the romance.
3. Seme/uke. Okay. I’ll admit, I just don’t get it. Probably this makes me an ignorant westerner, but I really just don’t understand how/why this convention became standard in boys’ love manga, and I personally find it off-putting. I can’t decide what disturbs me more, that one of the male characters is being forced into the role of “female” or that this role is what is considered to be “female” to begin with. Again, maybe the problem here is that I’m not the proper target audience, but I really crave stories that value individual characterization over traditional gender roles, and I find this particular formula to be distracting at best (and offensive at worst). Also, I don’t care what the characters do in bed as much as what they do out of bed, so the many pages devoted to cementing the seme/uke roles by demonstrating their assigned top/bottom roles in bed are mostly just boring to me, especially since the sex scenes seem to always revolve around getting the uke over his fear of penetration, which… well, I could go on for a very long time about how unrealistic and heteronormative I think that is, but I’ll spare you here.
Reading this back, I sound so hostile to the genre, but honestly, I really want to like it, and I keep trying to find titles I’ll enjoy. Trouble is, I’ve found nothing. I’m sure I must just not be looking at the right things. I admit, I originally searched out stories that I thought would be less focused on explicit sex, because I thought those might have more of the things I’m really looking for in my fiction, but it’s possible the opposite is true. Perhaps the stories I’ve been reading are really intended for younger readers, and I’d be better off with the more adult titles. On the other hand, I’m really not interested in just reading porn. So I don’t really know where to turn. I’m hoping, as I said, to find some help in Lissa’s reviews, but I’d take any suggestions here too. I’d also be interested in reading yuri titles, but after my BL experiences, I’ve been too scared to check them out.
Suggestions?
NarwhalTortellini says
August 16, 2008 at 3:56 pm*wanders in from MangaBlog*
“I can’t decide what disturbs me more, that one of the male characters is being forced into the role of “female” or that this role is what is considered to be “female” to begin with.”
Hahahaha. <333333 Yes! Yes to all of it! I know how you feel! I often sound so much like I’m hostile to yaoi, like I’m only reading it to ridicule it and make myself miserable. ^_^; Part of me keeps saying, ‘Clearly, this just isn’t for you,’ but while that is true to some extent, once in a while I’ll read something better and say ‘No, no, NO! The other stuff is BADLY WRITTEN!’ or really, like you say, written with the mentality of a middle schooler. With all the sexual content you’d think it should be like seinen or josei but with guy/guy stuff (some of it, anyway. I can understand some of it turning out like bad romance novels and such, but why ALMOST ALL OF IT?), but it seems so much more like it has the mental maturity of shoujo or shounen manga! And I read some manga out of those genres and like them, but…romance and sex done with that kind of mindset is just…disturbing.
And the plots…I admit with all my yaoi reading I’ve learned to somewhat settle for just things with better writing/characters even if it’s not exactly what I want, but oh, to find a nice, long yaoi where the romance and things directly related to it are not the one and only conflict in the story. I KNOW they’ve got to be out there, though, right? Do they just not license them here? But it takes so long to search through scanlations/read things in Japanese T_T
I’ve read a lot more yaoi lately because I’ve got a friend that keeps giving it to me, but honestly before that I was barely reading any on my own anymore. There’s…not really anything I can recommend unreservedly, but then again that’s just kind of my nature. ^^ Though it probably goes even more for yaoi than some genres. But here are some things I’ve liked more, for what that’s worth, heheh…
Off*Beat by Jen Lee Quick
Uh. This is OEL and I don’t know how you feel about that, but it’s one of my favorites. It’s not that long (supposed to be 3 volumes), and the relationship between the two main characters is the central matter, but the romance aspect of it is a little more on the side. No seme/uke vibe to speak of. It’s about kids in high school, but it’s smarter and funnier and more ‘real’ seeming than so much BL out there. Sadly the third volume is on indefinite hiatus.
Shout Out Loud by Takaguchi Satosumi
This one was mentioned in Jason Thompson’s manga guide so maybe you’ve already tried it and didn’t like it, but just in case. (Or maybe you tried Wild Rock which I believe was also given a high score and badly made me want to break my ‘No buring of the manga lent to you by friends’ rule.) This one has a strong seme/uke dynamic, but…it didn’t bug me as much, maybe cause at least the seme doesn’t try to make the uke his ‘girl’ and is somewhat annoyed (but fairly patient) with his..er, ukeness. Also, it kind of reminds one that being more innocent/demure does not actually equate to being immature (the main seme and uke work romantically together because they match more in maturity level than they do with other characters perusing them.) It’s longer (5 volumes), and while the romance is the main point it has other side stuff that’s pretty good, like some family drama and not hugely in-depth but amusing look into voice acting, particularly for yaoi. Honestly, the first volume isn’t the best and I might not have continued reading it if it hadn’t been back when it was scanlated and easy and free, but somewhere in the second it hooked me more with its humor, and then I slowly got to liking the rest more and more. But behind it’s sillyness and surface similarities to most other yaoi, I do think Sakende is a more mature title.
Thirsty For Love by Takaguchi Satosumi and Yukine Honami
So speaking of Takaguchi, I really liked this one, though it’s not exactly…what I look for. It’s just one volume and it’s not so much a romance as it is a story of guys dealing with their former girlfriend’s death and ending up having sex with one another in the process (^_^;) but believe it or not I actually found it *more* believable for this (not trying to shove it down our throats that these guys have magically fallen in love or anything). It’s…interesting, and (a little unsettlingly) sexy, I guess.
Paintings of You by Mia Paluzzi and Chris Delk
Not sure how much this would be to your taste, but I liked it so I’ll list it. Another OEL, it’s a story of two gay guys getting together, so it intrigues the slasher mind less I think. And it’s almost nothing but romance, only one volume, though at least not particularly seme/uke-ish. It’s a fluffy little story of misunderstanding that keeps the guys from realizing how interested the other really is, but… It’s just well done and fun enough I liked it? *shrug* It’s out of print, though, being from Iris Print. I actually also liked Only Words by Tina Anderson from that publisher as well (I actually didn’t like their novel A Strong and Sudden Thaw like everyone else, but I was sad we won’t be getting any more manga from them.), though it’s kinda like Thirsty for Love in that it’s more interesting and somewhat sexy than really romantic. Though very short.
Let Dai by Sooyeon Won
Manhwa. If you’ve got the stomach for the characters’ angsty inner ramblings of their eternal turmoil, it’s actually pretty good. It’s another where there isn’t a lot of actually non-character-relationship centered plot but where the romance is only part of what’s interesting about the relationship. Frankly usually I don’t like a huge amount of angst with so little humor, and when it seems so exaggerated and melodramatic. But though I really don’t know why, I enjoyed this, maybe because Dai’s such an interesting character.
Honeydew Syndrome by autobrig
Webcomic, and the art isn’t perfect at first (ok, so being a webcomic it’s never perfect, but it’s pretty good considering that at first, and then it just keeps getting better). It’s short with the arc for the (previous/original?) two main characters lasting a little less than a usual volume of yaoi (though of course it felt MUCH longer reading it a page or two a week), but there’s no seme/uke annoyingness, the writing is hilarious, and the kids act more like real high school boys than lovesick girls.
Stuff By Yamada Yugi
I haven’t read too much of her stuff yet, but so far it looks more mature and a little better written than a lot of yaoi. Sadly the romance is mostly all there is and what I’ve seen is pretty traditional yaoi stuff only better, but in the spirit of taking what you can get. ^_^;
Stuff by Miyamoto Kano
Similar to above, only perhaps more so, only also perhaps more with…less of a yaoi vibe and more slightly leaning towards something that would appeal to gay males. The Rules series is pretty long, too, I think.
Stuff by Yoshinaga Fumi
Though I bet you’ve heard it, someone will mention this name if I don’t (or probably even if I do ^_^). Honestly, way back when Antique Bakery came out (which, yeah, I know, not really yaoi), I tried it and was quite underwhelmed (the shop staff seemed somewhat fun but the way it was focusing on the rather unremarkable stories of the customers really put me off), so I didn’t read the rest or any of her actual yaoi stories (everyone raves about them, but then everyone raves the most about Antique Bakery, so why should they be any better?). But since then I’ve run into some others who felt the same about the first volume of that Antique Bakery but liked other works of hers, so I’ve been planning to try her again, and I’m actually feeling pretty optimistic about it…
(Also, actually, I kind of enjoy Loveless, but more for the weird battles and…weird everything. The romance aspect really creeps me out. ^_^;)
……….And then when you’ve tried any of those or what other people rec and have hated all of them, you can read scanlations of Ookiku Furikabutte by Higuchi Asa because it’s a seinen/slice of life/sports manga that won a Kodansha Manga award and Tezuka Cultural award and is long and a slashers dreaaaaaam. ^_^ Only weirdly (and to my initial irritation and disgust), the main characters seem to be pre-set up in a seme/uke type relationship. I guess it’s kinda like Prince of Tennis how it really tries way too hard sometimes to appeal to the fangirls (or so I hear. I never made it far in that series), but unlike that one it’s actually really good besides that, and after a while I got used to it and started finding it endearing instead, heheh. The thing is often…practically BL without any actual kissing/sex. But also about baseball! ^^ …Only I didn’t know anything about baseball at all and I still liked it. So might be worth a try.
It’s a shame you haven’t found any you liked at all, cause I’d be interested to know what you’ve found and see if there’s anything I haven’t tried. It’s a shame one can’t really listen to yaoi reviews, as the people doing them are usually people who definitely do have different taste than me ^_^; (Or you’ve got to read between the lines. ‘This reviewer just called the seme falling in love with the uke for returning his puppy and then getting him drunk and raping him ‘really sweet.’ …I don’t think I’m going to trust this one, today.’) *looks back at message* Hahah, but I’m long-winded to begin with and you…you just hit the nail on the head so hard you got me into rant mode ^____^ Happy yaoi hunting, anyway.
Melinda says
August 16, 2008 at 4:33 pmWow, thank you for such a wonderful, thoughtful response! When I first made this post, I linked to it over in my fannish journal for friends, and some of the things you list here are things they recommended to me as well. I’ll definitely check them out! I have no problem, by the way, with OEL, so I might look at those first. You know, I’m glad to get another vote on Shout out Loud, because I’d sort of just ignored the recommendations by the time I got that far in the BL write-ups in Jason Thompson’s book, but I did *read* that write-up, and I think I’ll give it a go.
Heh, I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t get far into Prince of Tennis. :D Though I did read the first volume of Antique Bakery, and I think I liked it a little more than you did, or maybe had more patience with it or something.
In any case, I’m very glad I got you into rant mode! I’m thrilled to have all these recs to look into, especially from someone who has many of the same issues as I do with the genre. Thank you so much!
Melinda says
August 17, 2008 at 7:37 amOkay, a little update: Last night I breezed through some scanlations of Shout out Loud. Spoilers below for those who care. Now I never trust scanlations, and really only use them as to gauge whether I want to buy a series or not, but I find myself kind of torn on this one. On one hand, I find the characters all really interesting, and I love the family drama and the stuff in the workplace (wow, hilarious), and I think I’d like to read the books, but there were a couple of things I found troubling, and I’m still processing them a bit. It does suffer a bit from “Everyone Is Gay” syndrome, but I don’t find that as unrealistic as I usually would, because, hey, I used to be an actress, so I can accept the concept that maybe a high percentage of the guys who do voice acting for BL drama cds are gay, and research shows that homosexuality is genetic, so I can also buy that the father and son might both be gay. So that’s not actually a real problem for me here, as it sometimes would be. What I found problematic was 1) Shino’s, uh, “ukeness” as you described it, and the fact that he never, even through the end, seemed comfortable actually having sex, and 2) the pervading philosophy that heterosexual relationships are essentially superior to homosexual ones, so much so that Shino’s son would make his father’s lover promise that he’d sever the relationship if either of them ever fell in love with a woman, and the lover would AGREE. That last point there was my real problem, I guess. It really bothered me. And yet, I found the whole thing otherwise really engaging, and I’d like to read it again.
I promise I’ll spare you from moment-to-moment updates on my yaoi reading experiments from now on, I just was really curious if you had any of the same reaction I did when reading this one. :)
NarwhalTortellini says
August 17, 2008 at 3:24 pmAh, Jason Thompson’s book. :( The yaoi section was disappointing. Though I consider myself a yaoi fan, my tastes tend to lean more towards what…yaoi tolerant manga fans tend to like more, so I had been looking forward to it.
Heh, episodes dedicated primarily to stories about characters that appear only for one episode is one of my pet peeves of manga (though usually more shounen manga, I think?), so it probably bothered me in Antique Bakery more than it should have. Though actually I also heard the later volumes do that less, so I want to try those. (..Or I did, but I was lazy and downloaded the anime instead, and am liking it pretty well so far.)
As for Sakende…
Haha, yes, everyone is gay. Except for the one straight guy. Who starts acting slightly gay in the end himself. ^_^;
Hmm, the problem is, it’s hard for me to remember how I felt about it at the time I was reading it, cause it was quite a while ago and probably even more importantly, one of the very first BL I read (though I guess by the time the scanlations were done it would have been much later, but I don’t think I’d read much more, and when I start something I tend to keep the same mindset about it I had when I started it), so I didn’t have a good grip on the genre conventions and such, so I probably reacted to things a little differently than I do now. I DO think think it bothered me Shino never seemed entirely comfortable, especially with the sex, but only kind of vaguely at the time. I think I just kind of thought, ‘Oh, there’s the uke character being overly uneasy again. …That’s not really good and it also seems kind of silly…but other stories had that too…so I guess the people that read this stuff find it hot?’ I bet it would bother me more now, especially since overly forceful semes that force their uke’s into things they aren’t comfortable with ‘for their own good’ tend to bug me. (Though I can’t really remember how much the seme was like that…It seems like it must have been at least somewhat like that, anyway.)
As for 2, holy crap, I don’t even REMEMBER that promise incident at all! But it’s hard to imagine how that WOULDN’T have bothered me! …I guess it’s possible that as a noob yaoi reader, and perhaps just as a somewhat younger and probably slightly stupider and less self-aware person in general, maybe the whole ‘homosexual is ok but heterosexual is better’ thing was invisible to me because it could have been an underlying ideology I held myself back then, even if I don’t think there was ever a time I would have consciously agreed with such a thing. But wow, it must have been really prevalent, considering even though I don’t remember the promise, remembering what I do from the story I can still see that idea pop up all over.
Now I’m starting to wonder if that’s something that pops up throughout Takaguchi’s works? (Though I haven’t really read enough to know. …Some of Takaguchi’s stuff looks like such crack, I’m scarred to read it.) I can remember female/male relationships having some part in two of them I read… One I can’t remember well enough, and the other is Thirsty for Love which I reced earlier. In that one…it seems like the straight and homosexual relationships, more than greater or lesser, are just different because of the circumstances. But I guess (maybe a spoiler here, I guess? though a rather predictable one, I think) It could be a little odd none of the boys seem to be interested in continuing their relationship with one of the others. I can totally see how they might not want to with all the weird baggage they share. And then if they did stay together it might seem like they were doing it cause they were having trouble letting go of the memory of their girlfriend. Heheh, just a weird situation, I guess. Too hard to judge. ^_^;
Haha, I don’t mind hearing what you think of them at all, it’s very interesting! I’ll probably be slightly, stupidly embarrassed if you end up not liking something, but that’s the way it goes with giving recommendations to a person you don’t know. And rather to be expected when I really just did a mindspill of all yaoi I remember I liked instead of trying to find ones that fit the things you mentioned (heheh, too hard). But if you ever feel like updating me on your yaoi reading experiments with what I’ve reced, I’d be interested to hear it. Or even your tries with what others have, too. (I’m wondering how far our common dislikes will make our preferences match, hahaha.) Will you be mentioning it on this blog here? *looks around realizing she has no idea where she is*
Melinda says
August 18, 2008 at 9:50 pmI think I will end up doing some follow-up here, so yes, this would probably be the place! Possibly my fannish LJ, but I don’t like to link to that here. It’s not some big secret or anything, I just prefer not to establish direct links. If you want to know where it is, e-mail me (melinda@eyeballman.com).
Please don’t feel embarrassed if I don’t like things! :D If it helps, I am sure I like things that you don’t. I was looking around online to see if you had a blog, and came across your LJ, and I can tell you now that I like *both* Fullmetal Alchemist and Bleach, so you can feel free to scoff at my tastes. ;)
NarwhalTortellini says
August 20, 2008 at 6:21 pmHahahaha, my location where I post stupid stories about my family and occasionally pretend not to like BL for the close friends who still haven’t realized that I do has been discovered! Aaah, I always feel bad for not liking Fullmetal Alchemist. Nothing seems wrong with it! It seems like the kind of thing I should like! And yet… T_T
I shall mail you, then, for watching LJ is easier than remembering to come here ^_^; Even if you don’t post it there, maybe seeing you post at all will remindme, hehehe?
Melinda says
August 20, 2008 at 6:30 pmActually, you can read *this* blog on LJ as well, so maybe that will also help! :D And that is public knowledge: mbeasi.livejournal.com
As for my fannish LJ, I have made it easier by friending your LJ with it. So you should be able to figure out which one it is. If not, e-mail is still an option!
I don’t think you have to justify or even *understand* not liking something. I have a really intense love for FMA. But other popular series, like Naruto, seem completely uninteresting to me. I couldn’t tell you why. I think that’s okay! :)
Oliver says
August 16, 2008 at 4:19 pmHi Melinda:
I really understand why it can be hard to get into Yaoi when most titles can be conventional and lack good story quality. I don’t think you’re hostile towards the genre because you said you’re trying to like it and I feel the same way.
One aspect of Yaoi I would especially like changed is the Seme/Uke convention. I can somewhat understand this convention, though, because real-life homosexual male couples do enforce these types (Top/bottom). The Bottom in the relationship is usually the more submissive person.
I see what you’re saying when romance is more enjoyable over a longer course. There are very few longer BL series that rival Shonen Jump-type volume numbers (“From Eroica With Love” comes to mind, it’s been in serialization since the ’70s, now being published by CMX).
I can make recommendations for you based on your preferences. From what I’ve observed, there seems to be some Korean Manhwa BL series that come in multiples. In Manhwa, stories are better suited to people who have been bored by traditional Yaoi stories. The BL Manhwa I’d recommend are:
“Totally Captivated” and “Let Dai” from Netcomics
Also check out many other non-BL Manhwa if you’re interested. A list can be found on Wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manhwa_by_English_title)
For BL manga, my recommendations are:
*”Only the Ring Finger Knows” and “Endless Rain” from June
*”Voice or Noise” and “Gerard and Jacques” from BLU
*”Ichigenme” and “The Prime Minister’s Secret Diplomacy” from 801 Media
*”Allure” and “Virtuoso di Amore” from DramaQueen
*”Embracing Love” from Be Beautiful
*”Legal Drug” from Tokyopop
For me, these titles are the best in the genre. Be Beautiful and DramaQueen aren’t printing right now, so it may be harder to find their books. Hope this helped!
Melinda says
August 16, 2008 at 5:16 pmOliver,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment! I’m sorry that your comment took so long to show up here. For some reason, Akismet marked it as spam. *sigh* Thank you especially for your Manhwa recommendations, as I haven’t read any! As far as manga goes, you know, I hadn’t actually realized that From Eroica With Love was BL, or I might have picked up volume 1, which I saw on the used shelf of my local comic shop last week. I had known it was a classic shoujo manga, but I hadn’t realized it could be classified as BL. I’ve been putting off trying out Legal Drug, because I know it isn’t finished, but I do love CLAMP (though I hadn’t realized that was really BL either). I’ll definitely check these out. Thank you so much!
Grace says
August 17, 2008 at 1:09 amEroica isn’t really BL. The main protagonist is gay (rather stereotypically so, but this is the 70s) and has a thing for the other main character, who never returns his feelings.
Melinda says
August 17, 2008 at 7:02 amAh, thanks, Grace, that’s kind of what I’d thought. Not that I wouldn’t *read* it because it isn’t BL—obviously none of my favorite series are BL. But I admit it has never interested me, partly because I find the art unappealing, and partly the premise (as I understood it) didn’t seem like my kind of thing, so whenever I’ve picked it up in a store, I’ve ended up putting it right back down.
laurie says
August 16, 2008 at 11:57 pmwell I do tend to stay away from yaoi/bl manga (well most shoujo manga too) because just how ridiculous the works tend to be. my 1st was FAKE so I guess I was spoiled. I do like Antique Bakery too and their might be a few more in my list. I’ve also noticed that the older I get (and adding more years to my manga reading experience) I’m moving away from Japanese comics and finding manga styled works from other places like Korea, Thailand, Europe, ect. I just cant stand japan’s obsession with gender roles and society rules.
Anyways, I’ve only read 2 out of 5 volumes of “Wild Adaptor”. I like it though it has a lot of violence and deals with drug dealing. Its funny too ^^ check it out from TP if you like.
Melinda says
August 17, 2008 at 12:04 amA couple of my friends have recommended FAKE so I suspect I should move that to the top of my list. Also, I’m getting the feeling that I should read some Manwha. which I haven’t so far.
Thank you muchly for taking the time to stop by, and also for the recommendations!
Yamcihan2 says
August 22, 2008 at 2:40 amFake is excellent. One of my first BL manga as well. And while the art isn’t my favorite, it isn’t terrible and the story is very interesting.
jun says
August 17, 2008 at 1:51 pmHi, Melinda! I find myself nodding along with much of what you say, and I especially agree with this part: “Also, I don’t care what the characters do in bed as much as what they do out of bed, so the many pages devoted to cementing the seme/uke roles by demonstrating their assigned top/bottom roles in bed are mostly just boring to me…”
The best yaoi I’ve read lately is Seduce Me After the Show. I reviewed it for my blog here.
Melinda says
August 18, 2008 at 9:05 pmAh, I will take a look at your review! Thank you!
LillianDP says
August 18, 2008 at 6:51 pmI second “Wild Adapter,” and not just because I’m the editor. :-) Definitely not your conventional seme/uke relationship.
Melinda says
August 18, 2008 at 9:04 pmI will check it out! :D Sounds promising!
Melinda says
August 18, 2008 at 10:39 pmOkay, since leaving that fairly lame reply to your comment, I have looked more carefully into “Wild Adapter” and I have to say it sounds very much like my kind of comic. I will look for this right away!
Also, I know that you edit a *lot* of manga, so actually you being the editor lends additional credibility to the recommendation, since you chose that to recommend that title alone.
Thank you!
Yamcihan2 says
August 22, 2008 at 2:19 amYeah. I hate how rushed many of the plots are in much of Yaoi manga. I agree also that the Seme/uke thing is ridiculous. And the lack of a build up in romance can be rather distracting.
For some reason I still read it. Darn.
Oh and if you want a great story that is mostly story and plot, but still has 2 guys together, go read the Nightrunner Series by Lynn Flewelling. The books are Luck in the Shadows, Stalking Darkness, Traitor’s Moon, and Shadow’s Return. They are excellent, probably because the author has read yaoi. The official website is http://www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling/
Enjoy.
Melinda says
August 23, 2008 at 10:45 pmThank you for the recommendation! :D
Dvana says
October 15, 2008 at 5:36 amWandered in off the web while I was looking for a particular series I had enjoyed, strangely enough. Thought I’d chime in.
I know your pain in this regard. The relationships in a lot of yaoi are just as transparent as the “delivery man” scenario in traditional porn. Unfortunately for those of us who are looking for a bit more, the formula seems to be just as effective.
One author who doesn’t usually adhere to the formulas is Naona Bohra. Unfortunately I can’t seem to find any of my favorite works of hers on the internet at the moment, but she writes stories that attempt to break the mode in one way or another. There is (unfortunately) usually a defined seme/uke role, but it doesn’t run on the stereotype much of the time.
Fair warning… many, many of her stories can run from a little odd to downright strange.
Huh. A little more digging and what do I find? I haven’t even read all of this yet. Glee! Nice fluffy database of her works. Poke around, give some of it a try; if it isn’t your thing, at the very least it’s all different from the norm. And the art is lovely.
Bah, enough babbling. Let me know if you find anything you like.
http://naonobohra.sea-meets-sky.com/scans.php
Melinda Beasi says
October 15, 2008 at 9:18 amThank you for the recommendations! Your description of these stories sounds like something I would enjoy a lot. I will dig in eagerly! Thank you!
Dvana says
October 15, 2008 at 5:43 amAlmost forgot. I’ve found most of what I read at the livejournal community yaoi daily; it’s a good place to be introduced to new series, and while there is a lot of stuff to weed through, I don’t find it that hard to pin the art styles that cater to the stereotypes. Give it a try.
Melinda Beasi says
October 15, 2008 at 9:19 amI’ll definitely take a look at that comm. Thanks again!
Astrid says
May 20, 2009 at 2:10 pmI so agree with you about yaoi.
So far I only found these manga(s) :
Kinou Nani Tabeta?
Ai no Kotodama
Koi no Kawaki/Be Thirsty of Love
jazz says
August 9, 2009 at 8:45 amthis… is such a late reply i am sorry. D:
but can i implore you to try stuff by shiho sugiura? her “ice cold demon’s tale” might interest you – it’s fantasy, 26 volumes. so far storminheaven.net has scanlations up to volume 12. they also have other nice bl stuff.
…or moto hagio. :D she never gets old.
Melinda Beasi says
August 9, 2009 at 9:14 amActually I’ve been reading Silver Diamond, though I haven’t seen any of her straight-out BL. I like SD a lot, though!
I wish more was available officially in English, including Moto Hagio’s work. It’s tragic to me how hard it is to find.
jazz says
August 11, 2009 at 6:06 amhaha, yeah, now that i’ve poked around your blog, i can see you’ve read SD (and wild adapter~! that series needs more love) i advise you to stick with it even if the beginning is not to your liking. :D
i do too, especially some of the longer or classic stuff. xP a lot of the things i see licensed are those one-volume deals that, while okay/cute/readable, are lacking in real substance. D:
Stuff I Have Read (Some a Long Time Ago) and Enjoyed:
la esperanca – i, uh, enjoyed this as a melodramatic adolescent, but i remember it was surprisingly touching, and i loved the art – which may be not to your tastes, being very… baroque. :x 7 volumes and complete.
you’re read fumi yoshinaga, yes> what about her “gerard et jaques” series?
kaze no yukue is only one volume long, but i really liked the humor and the relationship
also, i suspect i am much more tolerant/easily satisfied than you, but try yatterneeze. it is long-ish, and touches upon a couple of serious issues most bl manga gloss over.
orrr, though this is a stretch… if you have lj, and don’t mind joining a community, here’s my own hugely embarrassing begging post. xO it has a truckload of recs and much pointless squeeing.
…urgh sorry for all the SPAM i just… have too much enthusiasm sometimes. (and way too much love for bl)
Kris says
January 8, 2010 at 3:32 pmOoooh I have some opinions on this stuff. I share yours, of course. Some of the oneshots or books that compile multiple stories into one volume, are the worst offenders of rushed relationships. When you must have meeting, rape, love, sex in your story, but your story is only one of 4 in a (maybe 200 page) book…it’s obvious that things will be contrived and thrown together and rushed as all get out.
And speaking of rape…it’s in practically every story, like a staple of the genre. It almost always kicks off the relationship. Which then typically continues with the raped character falling in love with the person who brutally violated him.
So much of this stuff is soooo formulaic. If the characters and story aren’t distinctive, it’s not worth bothering with, because at that point it’s just pointless smut. Which is alright every now and then, but not in every book.
I’m also really put off by the portrayal of homosexuality. One partner is typically a macho male, and the other is an overly effeminate, might-as-well-BE-a-girl, pretty boy. Admittedly as a theatre major, most of the gay men I have known in my life were pretty effeminate. But these characters REALLY look, and often act, like females. You could throw some boobs on them and get rid of the penis, and they WOULD be girls without changing anything else.
I read a book called…Promise of Romance, where the uke cross dressed as a female to pretend to be the seme’s fiancee. It was completely unclear to me if the seme fell in love with the uke AS a female, or as a guy. Because many of the moments of attraction were when the uke was dressed up as a female. It was really ambiguous, and I was really annoyed.
Anyway, they seem obviously written for females to read….
And I totally necroed this post too.
Myrah says
May 31, 2010 at 9:42 pmSomething I’ve suspected for a long time and something that I am beginning to find is more and more true, is that the best BL comes from manga that isn’t really BL. Banana Fish. A great deal of CLAMP and Fumi Yoshinaga. Nabari no Ou. It’s when romance takes the side dish position on the genre plate that the best relationships tend to come out, in my opinion. Though you tend to give up full-fledged romantic relationships, you usually gain much deeper characterization, more appropiate pacing, and a better manga overall. (Okay, I’ll admit right now that I’m biased because I hate the romance genre. But still: in most cases, it seems that when the romance is the main focus, the plot and characters get shoved wayside in order to build up to the climatic kiss.)
Anyway, I’m going to recommend the webcomics “The Less Than Epic Adventures of TJ and Amal” (great art, nice pacing, not done) and Khaos Komix (mediocre art, rewarding characters, and manages to pull off retelling the same story multiple times- also not yet done, but getting there.) If I could think of more at moment, I would rec them, but I can’t.
Melinda Beasi says
June 1, 2010 at 4:20 pmYou know, I should be reading TJ and Amal anyway, because for some reason, they link to my website! :D Thanks for the recommendations!